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Author Topic: Come back the core memory on my hand now, really!  (Read 24964 times)
n8eyh with OCD-WM42 of Hilse
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« on: October 06, 2006, 01:28:43 pm »

Hi all,
Today, I got the 8K x 16 bits core memory pcb board through the eBay auction.
I heard that this would be the core memory parts of NCR 615-251 computer.
I am making an idea to connect it into the parallel i/o port on my 8 bits micro cpu,
in order to configure the memory as the disk drive, like NCR Century 640 disk unit.
Because the core memory can keep the data storage state after power-off.
I am appreciated of provision to describe how to make the hardware circuits
of the core memory on another thread of this site. It's very informative.

Best regards,
Katsuhiko
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Katsuhiko Hirai
Fan of the Century architecture under 63 index registers.
n8eyh with OCD-WM42 of Hilse
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2006, 02:23:39 pm »

Related to parts configuration:
  The pcb board of the core memory: PCB measures 7 3/4” by 5 7/8”
  1) 1 7/8” square 64 x 64 core (4K) sections  2 arrayes
                                                           with 3 wires threaded through them: X, Y, and Sense
  2) 5428 ICs (Quad 2-input NOR gate)         16 devices (Korea)
  3) 7524N (8-bit D/A Converter)                   1 device (Malaysia)
                                                     through a small pulse transformer of TOKO (Japan)
  4) 100 ohms register (14 array)                  1 device
  5) 1.8   micro F capacitor                           1 device
  6) 0.05 micro F capacitor                           1 device
  7) 0.01 micro F capacitor                           1 device
  Cool 750 pF capacitor                                   1 device

Is there some one who has the schematic of this pcb?
Because circuits wiring looks like complexed flowcharts.
That's my next step to make sure the core connection project for me, Hi!

Best regards,
Katsuhiko
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Katsuhiko Hirai
Fan of the Century architecture under 63 index registers.
n8eyh with OCD-WM42 of Hilse
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Posts: 60


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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2006, 11:42:30 am »

I am reporting the status of my project of coming back memory into my micro cpu board.
Today I got the second core memory board in the auction.
I paid dollars to be 'CENTURY-100' value, even though the first one was the value of C-42 tellers machine in September.
My pocket became just like a bag of Santa Claus in the morning dated December 26.

The reason why I have gotten it is that I need the back-up board for damaging the first one.
Because, I am going to dismantle the first one into pieces, in order to trace the circuit schematics of board.
After completion to describe of the schematics, I will analyze the working mechanism of the circuit, in order to make sure the interface to the port of my micro cpu.
These plan is my schedule of the project during a half of 2007.
It will need so tough because I am not so good at the hardware matter.

I will be appreciated if you have any suggestion or idea.
Best regards,
Katsuhiko
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Katsuhiko Hirai
Fan of the Century architecture under 63 index registers.
RetrospectUK
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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2007, 08:27:41 am »

Katsuhiko

I have the Technical Information Manual (MS788) for the Century 101 which has a section on the memory modules M17-4(4k) and M17-5 (8k). These are the same modules as were used in the 605 processor (399,8200).
The section is 55 pages long. It is not the full operational description of the memory which is in MS784, NCR 605-1 GPMC Service Training Manual.
I have a copy of MS785 which has a similar section on the memory but in addition has the siagram of the delay Segment and One Shot Circuits.
If you want a copy of the section from MS-788 please let me know. It will be a large file.

Regards Ian (UK)
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n8eyh with OCD-WM42 of Hilse
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2007, 05:44:41 am »

Dear Ian,

  Good morning and good noon time of beautiful weekend from Japan.
I am appreciated of your good news and advise in May.

Unfortunately I have not completed my project related to the NCR core memory array,
because I am getting another busy project for a while.

However, I am keeping in my mind to be sure the completion.
Because I need to attach the core memory into my micro cpu that
can control to make the frequency of my old receiver's local oscillator stabilize through
a variable capacitance diode.
The tube based receiver is my memorial kits in my high school days around 1960.
I am going to put the core memory to keep the characteristics data of shifting the
frequency in order for my program to study the shifdting carve.
It might be long project for me to complete it. But I like to walk step by step along my foot scale.

Well, I am appreciated of your advise. However, I am worrying about the volume of the manual.
It seems for me to be convenient in the pdf file.
Do you have any idea, Ian?

Best regards,
Katsuhiko
Yokohama, Japan
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Katsuhiko Hirai
Fan of the Century architecture under 63 index registers.
Aleksandrs Guba
Administrator
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Posts: 80


« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2011, 09:06:20 pm »

Core Memory for The Core Memory!

Dear All,

I've got fantastic present. NCR Century 150 Core Memory Board!
My "Thank You" goes to Hans-Jurgen Kopfstadt from Germany. What a gift!

Thank you, Hans-Jurgen!

P.S. See photos of the board attached.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 09:59:57 pm by Aleksandrs Guba » Logged
wally
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2011, 09:40:40 pm »

Hi Aleksandrs,
the memory-board looks as it is the same board, which was used in the 605-units,
like 399, 499, 8200, 8250 and 726. But I have never seen a Century 150 from inside, so I don't know, if the same memory-boards were used. I only worked with 605-units.

Does anybody know, if my presumption is true?
Regards Wally.
 
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Aleksandrs Guba
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2011, 10:08:32 pm »

Hi Wally,

I've never seen Century 150 from inside too. But as it was stated by Hans-Jurgen: "This board was on duty until 1979 in a Century 150".
Just see the enlarged part of the photo above. Any memories on the subject?  Wink

Regards,
Aleksandrs
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 10:47:11 pm by Aleksandrs Guba » Logged
wally
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2011, 10:46:27 pm »

Hi Aleksandrs,
as I can see from the label it is an 8K-board.
If my memory is correct, the boards were available in the sizes of 4K, 8K, 16K.
I believe later there were also 32k-boards, but I'm not sure. In the 605-unit was room for max. 3 memory-boards.

When I look at the pictures of the memory-board memories come back of the good old times. I was one of the first two engineers for 605 in Germany. We were both trained on 399 at ITEC Giessen in spring of 1973. At that time I was stationed at Hannover and I was also every year on duty at CEBIT.
Regards Wally.

Edit: I have looked at the label again. As I can recognize the board was manufactured in Sep. 1976 and it is definitely a 605 memory-board, because the label says C-605 8K x 18. This would mean, 605-parts were also used in the Century 150. As far as I remember, these boards were manufactured in Mexico and in Hongkong.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 03:16:27 am by wally » Logged
RetrospectUK
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2011, 10:46:05 am »

This extract from the NCR Century Technical Information Manual (1974) gives an explanation on the use of the boards in Century and 605 computers.

Ian

SECTION E MEMORY
GENERAL MEMORY INFORMATION
The primary purpose of this handbook section is to provide the Field Engineer with handy, quick-reference information pertaining to the M17-4 and M17-5 Core Memory Boards. The information consists of reference figures and tables and a brief troubleshooting guide. A detailed operational description of the M17-4, -5 can be found in the NCR 605-1 GPMC Service Training Manual (MS-784).
The 1.2 uses. Core Memory, sometimes called the "Slow Core," is availabel in two variations which include the M17-4 model (4K-word capacity) and the M17-5 model (8K-word capacity). Both models use the same "mother board" (electronics board); the only difference is which of two core stack assemblies is used.
The 4K-word model is presently used exclusively for 605 processor applications. Its capacity is 4096 addresses, each containing 17 bits (16 data bits plus 1 parity bit).
The 8K-word model is presently used for both 605 and 615-101 processor applications. Its capacity is 8192 addresses, each containing 18 bits. The 605 processor requires only a 17-bit word which leaves bit 18 unused. The Century 101 processor, however, requires all 18 bits since it is a byte-oriented machine (i.e., each address contains two 8-bit bytes plus a parity bit for each byte). Therefore, in terms of a Century 101, the 8K-word memory is essentially a 16K-byte memory.
NOTE: Unless otherwise specified, all references to capacity in this M17-4, -5 TIH are designated or inferred as words (17 bits for 4K or 18 bits for 8K).
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wally
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2011, 02:23:50 pm »

Hi Ian,
thank you for the information on the Memory-Boards.
I don't have any technical information anymore. One reason is, that I didn't work anymore in Field-Engineering since 1979, because I changed to software-development for Supermarkets (726 / 8230 / 8250). The other reason is, that I moved house to often (Germany, Bermuda, USA, South-Africa, Germany) and I didn't keep all those old documents.
Regards Wally.
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heikobuss
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2015, 09:59:03 pm »

Hallo Wally,

I just read your memorys about the 605-Processor.

I was a Field Engineer for the 615-100/200 in Germany.

I was trained for the 605 in 1974 in Augsburg - a complete Course down to Chiplevel-Repair (6 weeks?) only on the CPU.

The reason: The EDP-Service Personnell had to take over the Support for the new electronic cash registers (255/726), and we had to support the M05-Maschines (=re-labeled 499) for the german bundeswehr.

I found the 605 a very nice processor!

Best regards
Heiko
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wally
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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2015, 10:58:49 am »

Hi Heiko,
as I mentioned before, in Germany I was one of the first, who had training for the 605 (399). I had my training at
ITEC Giessen (1973). The other engineer was from Hamburg (Klaus ??). In the first few month we had to cover all of Germany.
He did the South and me the North and West-Berlin. My training for peripherals I had at CTEC Dayton in 1974 (4 to 5 month).
The teachers in Giessen were Edgar ?? and Hans Fischer. Hans died end of 1975, he had a tumor in his head. I was shocked, because
I had no idea about his ailment. This happened a few month after we both were on a support-trip to Bundeswehr-Depots in
the region of Lingen (BW-Depot Lengerich) and Rheine. BTW in 1975 I had the support for the pilot-installation at the Bundeswehr-Depot
in Ahrbergen (between Hannover and Hildesheim). The installation was in competition to installations of IBM, Phillips and Nixdorf.
The result was, that NCR got the order (believe it were 80 installations). In mid of 1976 I left NCR Germany and took over the
605-support for Bermuda Business Machines (Agents for NCR). Bermuda was the reward for all the hard work in Germany....lol.
"Those were the days, my friend we thought they'd never end............."
I have attached a little funny story about making calls in Bermuda. It shows the owner of BBM (Martin Cusack RIP.)
Best regards Wally.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 11:42:52 am by wally » Logged
heikobuss
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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2015, 02:47:18 pm »

Hallo Wally,


thanks for your reply.

I was stationed at the NCR-Branch in Kiel and had to do the Century-Support  (and later on for the Bundeswehr and Karstadt (726/255)) in Schleswig-Holstein. My Chef resides in Hamburg (Dieter Huke).

You mentioned Klaus Huh? from Hamburg doing the same 605-Course as you. Was it possibly Klaus Mahl? He was the NCR-500-Specialist in Hamburg, and it sounds logically that he did this course, because the 605 seems to be the follower of the good old NCR-500.

It sounds funny that he did the support in the South - from Hamburg?

My 615-100/200-Training was in London, the rest of all trainings were in Augsburg (Basic-Training, 605, the 499, the 657-Disk with the 625-Controller, an new Controller to handle Compact-Cassettes as Input-Device on the Century, the Binary Synchronous Communications-Course (for the Bundeswehr-Machines), and so on. I've never been in Giessen or in the USA - unfortunately .....

You wrote, NCR gets the order - in competition to installations of IBM, Phillips and Nixdorf. A myth (rumor?) says, that NCR offers the 499, and the Bundeswehr didn't like it. So NCR produced some new labels to stick them on the machines and re-labeled the 499 to "M05" and offered again - and became the order .....

We technicians where all laughing about the old "historical" Peripherals NCR sold to the Bundeswehr. Machines like the "I-8200" (with IMOS as Operating System), with Disks, Printers and several Monitors (Multi-User) where State of the Art at this time - and they had there a system with Ledger Cards(!) for Storage (I remember the big Ledger Card feeder coming from the NCR-500), with Punched Cards as input medium (Juki-Locher!), with several big hods storing all the hundreds of Ledger Cards - Data Processing at the level of 1967 (NCR-315)!! Really funny!!

I remember the Juki Card Punch having an interface to connect it to the 499 (sorry: M05 ..) -  so they could punch the cards programm controlled from the 499 (Whow!). This Interface was "handmade" by an engineer bureau at Paderborn. Some years later I contacted this bureau, and they produced a lot of  "handmade" and  "hand-programmed" data input terminals (like Datalogic) for special purposes for my company - very good people there!

On this Bundeswehr material depots I remember the time to wait for the hand-made(!) connection to München-Erding to transmit data!

I remember they printed a very lot of "MBS" ("Material-Begleit-Schein") with 4(!) copies at the 499 console matrix printer - I guess, this Printer was really not constructed for THIS use!

Yes, the 605 was a very nice CPU. Lateron NCR evaluated the 605 from a 4-Board-CPU to an 1-Bord-CPU (that was after my NCR-Time).

The 605 was in an lot of machines (726, 625-Disk-Controller für 658-Disks, Century 8200, I-8200, 399,499, Multiplexer for Terminals (RS-232) on VRX-Machines, Cash Dispensers, all the "IMOS"-Machines, and, and, and ....

I guess the 605 was the most produced CPU NCR ever build.

Very funny the article over Mr. Cusack on his Unicycle at the Bermudas! Did you also use this vehicle for the way to your custumers ...?

"Those were the days, my friend we thought they'd never end............."

Best Regards
Heiko
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wally
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2015, 05:08:41 pm »

Hi Heiko,
yes, it was Klaus Mahl! The decision, who had to cover South or North, was made by the managers in Augsburg.
We were both for 2 or 3 weeks in Augsburg, preparing the first 399s to be delivered to customers.
And as my base was Hannover, they decided for me to do the North.

The pilot-installation at BW Ahrbergen consisted of a 399, 368 and 378 for punched cards, 349 line printer, 314 ML-reader
and a punch card sorter (IBM 082 or 083) and an older IBM-communications-unit for transmitting punched cards.
As the summer 1975 was very hot, I had to modify the 605 (399) with stronger blowers. One of the requirements was operation
without air-conditioning. After BW had placed the order, the first units delivered were 399s. I never heard about any relabeling
and later on I was to far away.

When I was with H. Fischer at BW Lengerich, we did a communications-test with the 399. This was done by a hand made ring connection.
Leaving Lengrich from one 399 and going via 10 or a few more depots and returning to Lengrich to a second 399.
The transmissions were a success.

My training for communications was done during my time in Dayton. So I was also involved in the 399-installations for
the "Oberpostdirektionen", all with binary-synchronous-communications. Later in Bermuda I found a bug in the BSC-routines,
which I fixed. But I had a lot of discussions about it with the guys in Dayton. In the end they had to admit the bug.

I was also heavily involved in 726-support. I programmed once (still in Germany) a support-tool for it.
It was used for dumping and loading the memory of a 726. I did this in 605 machine language. I got a 400 DM bonus from NCR for it.
Later I was involved in introducing "scanning" to Bermuda and I was asked to switch sides and develop software for the customer.

The article about Mr. Cusack was published in an old NCR-magazin (must have been 60s). He passed away in Sep. last year at age 93.
http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20141029/BUSINESS/141029642
I never used a unicycle, but I used scooters and motorbikes in Bermuda (I lived and worked there for 12 years).

Since a few years I enjoy now my retirement, working only private with PCs and software.

Best regards Wally.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 06:01:11 pm by wally » Logged
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